关于素食主义的辩论：如何改变他人观点
Debating veganism: How to change someone's opinion
Hello and welcome to 6 Minute English. I'm Dan and joining me is Rob.
大家好，欢迎来到六分钟英语。我是丹，这是我的搭档罗伯。
Hello.
大家好。
Here at BBC Learning English, we're always discussing diets.
在BBC英语学习频道，我们总是在讨论饮食。
I am on a sea-food diet. When I see food, I just have to eat it!
我在吃海鲜减肥呢。每当我看到食物，我就忍不住把它吃掉！（谐音笑话：sea-food与see food同音）
I suppose there's no chance of converting you to a vegan diet, is there?
我想根本不存在把你变成纯素食者的可能，对不对？
That seems be the most talked about food fad at the moment – a fad is something that is popular but only for a short time.
这似乎是目前人们谈论最多的食物时尚—时尚就是短时间内很受欢迎的东西。
Of course, veganism – that's not eating or using any products that come from animals – may be more than a fad.
当然，素食主义—不吃或不使用任何来自动物的产品—可能不仅仅是一种时尚。
It could be a lifestyle that improves our health and the planet.
它可能是一种改善我们的健康、使地球更美好的生活方式。
And it could be here to stay.
它可能会长久地存在下去。
But personally, me becoming a vegan would take some persuading.
但就我来说，如果想说服我成为一名素食主义者的话，那确实需要下点功夫。
I'm sure it would.
我认为肯定是这样。
And in this programme we'll be discussing the debate about veganism and how it's sometimes difficult to change people's minds.
在今天的节目中，我们会就素食主义的相关争论进行讨论，并探讨如何改变人们的看法，虽然这有时候很难做到。
But first a question to answer.
但首先要回答一个问题。
We've mentioned what a vegan eats but what about a lacto-ovo-vegetarian?
我们已经提到过素食主义者吃什么，那么，乳蛋素食者又吃什么呢？
Which one of these items can they eat? Is it: a) pork b) fish or c) cheese?
他们可以吃以下哪种食物呢？答案是： a）猪肉 b）鱼还是 c）奶酪？
I'll say b) they can eat fish.
我选择b）他们可以吃鱼。
Well, you’ll have to wait until the end of the programme to find out.
好吧，节目最后你才能知道答案。
But now back to veganism.
现在我们说回素食主义的话题。
According to some national surveys, there are now around 3.5 million full-time vegans in the UK... and the number is growing!
根据全国调查显示，英国现在大约有350万纯素食者......而且这个数字正在增长！
And what was recently a radical lifestyle choice is slowly moving into the mainstream – or has become accepted by most people as normal.
而最近，这种激进的生活方式正慢慢进入人们的主流选择—或者说，已被大多数人所接受并视为正常。
Advocates of veganism say their healthy lifestyle would also free up space and resources for growing food and it would help reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
素食主义的倡导者表示，他们健康的生活方式还可以释放更多空间和资源来种植粮食，这将有助于减少温室气体排放。
Yeah, but come on Dan. Having a meat-free diet means you might not get all the nutrients you need.
是，不过，丹，要知道，无肉饮食意味着你可能无法获得所需的所有营养。
Well, this is all part of the debate, Rob.
好吧，这是这场争论的部分内容，罗伯。
There's always two sides to an argument and it's something that's been discussed on BBC Radio 4's Farming Today programme.
争论总是有正反两种观点，这早已在BBC广播4频道《今日农业》节目上有所讨论。
They spoke to Dr Jutta Tobias Mortlock, a senior lecturer in organisational psychology at London's City University,
他们采访了伦敦城市大学组织心理学高级讲师Jutta Tobias Mortlock博士，
who explained why views about veganism are so polarised –
她解释了为什么关于素食主义会产生两极分化的看法—
that 'means causing people to divide into two groups with opposing views'.
这“意味着人们分成意见相反的两个群体”。
This issue touches on personal beliefs, and beliefs always trump facts and so, often when we talk about beliefs, we're touching on important values.
这个问题触及个人信仰，信仰总是胜过事实，所以，当我们谈论信仰时，我们常常触及重要的价值观。
Values are the things that guide our opinion over what's right versus what's wrong.
价值观指导我们对于正确与错误的看法。
And so whenever people argue over whether it's right or wrong to eat meat, they are in fact not debating the facts around this issue,
因此，当人们争论吃肉是对还是错时，他们实际上并没有围绕这个问题进行事实辩论，
they're actually debating the beliefs about what's moral or immoral about this.
而是围绕这种做法是道德还是不道德进行信仰层面的辩论。
So it seems in the whole debate about veganism we are basing our views on beliefs.
因此，在关于素食主义的整个辩论中，我们的观点基于信仰。
A belief is something we feel is true or real.
信仰是我们认为真实或客观存在的东西。
Our beliefs are based on our values – those are the things we think are right and wrong.
我们的信仰基于我们的价值观—那些我们认为是对或是错的东西。
And when we argue over the rights and wrongs of veganism, we base it on our values – not hard facts.
当我们争论素食主义的对错时，我们基于价值观—而不是硬性事实之上。
We talk about our view on what is immoral – so what society thinks is wrong or not acceptable.
我们谈论的观点围绕什么是不道德的而展开—即社会认为是错误的或不可接受的。
But basically, there is no right or wrong answer.
但究其根本，不存在所谓正确或错误的答案。
That's why we need facts, Rob.
所以我们需要事实，罗伯。
So Dan, what can I do if I want to win you over to becoming an omnivore, like me?
丹，如果我想争取让你也成为像我一样的杂食动物，我该怎么做呢？
According to Dr Jutta, there are two main routes to winning someone over:
根据Jutta博士的说法，要想说服一个人改变想法，主要有两种途径：
a direct, fact-based approach or a 'peripheral route', which might be more effective.
采用直接的、基于事实的方法或走“边缘路线”，后者可能更有效。
Let's hear her explain how it works.
让我们听她解释一下这是怎么回事。
If I'm working with you and I'm trying to get you to come round to my side, I might not focus on the central facts.
如果我和你一起共事，想说服你同意我的看法，我可能不会专注于中心事实。
I might focus on the peripheral stuff around how I'm constructing my argument.
我可能会把重心放在边缘事物上，围绕如何构建论点展开。
I'd look for ways of how they overlap as people, like what do they have in common?
我会找出大家同样作为人类的一员，在哪些方式上存在重合之处，比如他们有什么共同点？
And that's a way to debate an issue such as this controversial one in a way to get people to feel connected to each other and to actually feel that they value each other as decent human beings.
对于类似的争议性话题，这是一种辩论问题的方式，可以让人们感受到彼此间相互联系，同时真正感受到重视彼此，将彼此视作体面的人。
Interesting! This is a more subtle way of winning an argument.
有趣！这是赢得争论的一种更微妙的方式。
She says we should focus on the peripheral stuff –
她说我们应该把重点放在边缘事物上—
these are the things that are not as important as the main argument but are connected to it.
这些东西不像主要论点那么重要但与之相关。
So we could say we're looking for common ground – things that both sides agree on or at least understand.
所以也可以说，我们正在寻找共同点—双方都同意或至少理解的事情。
Dr Jutta talked about making both sides feel connected.
Jutta博士谈到让双方感到彼此有关联。
And it's a good point.
这个观点很好。
Even if you don't want to be a vegan, you should respect someone's choice to be one.
即使你不想成为素食主义者，你也应该尊重别人的选择。
Yes, it's all about valuing someone as a decent human being.
是的，所有这些全部有关于将一个人视作体面的人而予以尊重。
Decent means 'good and having good moral standards'. Like us, Dan!
体面意味着“具有良好的道德标准”。就像我们一样，丹！
Well, they're wise words, Rob!
嗯，你这番话很有见地，罗伯！
Of course, it would be morally wrong – immoral – not to give you the answer to our quiz question.
当然，不告诉你我们的测验问题的答案，这在道德上是错误的—不道德的。
Earlier I asked which one of these items can a lacto-ovo-vegetarian eat.
早些时候，我问道：乳蛋素食者可以吃下面哪种食物？
I said b) fish.
我的回答是b）鱼。
Sorry, no – that's something they can't eat – but they can eat cheese.
抱歉，答错了—他们不能吃鱼—但他们可以吃奶酪。
A lacto-ovo-vegetarian is a person who eats vegetables, eggs, and dairy products but does not eat meat.
乳蛋素食者指的是：吃蔬菜，鸡蛋和乳制品但不吃肉的人。
No meat! No steak! How can they enjoy eating?!
没有肉！没有牛排！他们又怎么享受吃东西的乐趣呢？！
Rob, remember as a decent human beings, we respect all views here.
罗伯，记住，作为一个体面的人，我们尊重所有观点。
Just joking – but now I'm deadly serious about reviewing some of the vocabulary we've discussed today.
只是开玩笑—现在我要非常认真地复习我们今天讨论过的一些词汇。
OK. Our first word was fad. A fad is something that is popular but only for a short time.
好的。我们的第一个词是时尚。时尚就是短时间内很受欢迎的东西。
Next, we mentioned mainstream.
接下来，我们提到了主流。
Something that is mainstream has become accepted by most people as normal.
主流的东西已被大多数人所接受并视为正常。
Then we had polarised – that describes a situation that causes people to divide into two groups with opposing views.
还有两极分化—描述的是人们分成意见相反的两个群体的情况。
A belief is something we feel is true or real.
信仰是我们认为真实或客观存在的东西。
And immoral describes something that society thinks is wrong or not acceptable.
不道德用来描述社会认为是错误的或不可接受的东西。
We also mentioned peripheral, which relates to things that are not as important as the main argument, but are connected to it.
我们也提到边缘的，边缘的东西不像主要论点那么重要但与之相关。
It also means situated on the edge.
它也可以表示位于边缘位置。
And finally, decent means good or good enough.
最后，体面的表示良好的或优秀的。
Don't forget you can learn more English with us on our website at bbclearningenglish.com.
请不要忘记，在我们的网站bbclearningenglish.com上，你可以和我们一起学到更多内容。
Bye for now.
下期节目再会。
Goodbye.
再会。